Ben Lomond Rap Stations Removed

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Many people think it would be special to have a place like the ben with bolted routes in their backyard also. This is a matter of preference.  I think the comment above wasn't referring to bolted routes per se, but commenting on the erroneous arguments used for the removal of fixed anchors.  The huber brothers have placed many bolts, both on lead and on rappelle.  They have even been known to place abseil anchors to facilitate photographing/filming their exploits (which I have no problem with).   

The fact is that all the arguments used by gerry refer to eg Lazy pricks who can't be arsed walking, people who don't care about upholding his ideal of what a good day out is (how is it lazy to rap so you can enjoy more routes, who's to say those of us who rap once or twice during the day, don't walk down at the end of the day), in short arguments against abseiling.  But he only invokes these arguments when it suits him.  Issues of conservation are quickly forgotten when he cleans routes, his past deeds of vandalism etc (thankfully enshrined forever in classic prose in old magazines) are also forgotten. 

If the issue is really about abseiling then it should include discussion of eg the massive mess of slings and crap that is at the top of the knuckle.  If the discussion is about the bad aesthetics of bolts, then it must also include the crappy looking tat halfway up master blaster.  From which many of us have lowered because it was convenient and we were too lazy to climb out to the top.  Or the slings at the top of (and I guess the pieces of fixed gear discarded in (despite popular rumor they are not stuck)) Fatini's off-width, used again for convenience, to get down after the "interesting" climbing is dealt with.   

If the issue is about fixed gear it should be about fixed gear.  I would rather rap on big bits of steel, (although if I place the 19mm tube and it is connected to something I think is bomber I don't really care) but I have and do rap on bits rope, trees, bollards (rock, snow and ice) and anything else I need to.  Slings etc may add to some nostalgic ideas of goodness for some people, but not for everyone.  You do not have to clip the bolts when you rap.  You are quite welcome to find your own way down.  Unlike bolts on a route, that I agree are pretty hard to ignore, certainly psychologically the option is always there to clip them if you get too scared, it is highly unlikely you would desire to stick to a described descent route for any kudos, so rap where ever you like, off whatever you like, but don't pretend that bolts, pitons, threads etc, left behind for this express purpose are not ALL fixed gear. 

What gerry does IS directly for his benefit.  Cutting the bolts at the ben certainly wasn't for mine!  Declaring hillwood a bolt friendly zone, developing other bolted areas, adding shittily placed top-rope anchors in the gorge for monetary gain (apparently it is ok to not bother using available "non-fixed/removable" anchors if you are with a school group or similar, as long as it is in an area that is sanctioned by gerry (certain cliffs in the gorge, but not LFM at coles bay). The placing of bolts at tasman island (may not have been gerry directly, but certainly bob) for an "extreme"event, the placing of bolts on rapel at schouten island (again maybe not gerry, but bob and another antibolt loudmouth adam donohue).  It seems that these guys have listened to too much metalica (although I'm not 100% sure this is possible) "you can do it your own way, as long as it's done how I say (or similar)".  I DO NOT suggest these bolts should not have been placed, but DO take exception to being told by these guys what is right and wrong.   The sadest thing is that gerry is so egotistical and pigheaded that he DOES believe he is right and can ONLY see his way.  He doesn't realise that by trying to enforce his way on everyone else he may fuck it up for everyone.  As mentioned already by Doug he seeks to pull the wool over everyones eyes and claims to acting for a higher authority (parks), when really he is imposing his will on everyone.  And at the same time he is bringing parks attention to something that they do not want to deal with, and that we do not want them to deal with.  If we make them respond to the bolting issue they will.  Not from a logical this is best for the env. or safety point of view, but from one that makes their management of the issues easiest.  This will probably be no anchors, not bolts.  If you want to see how gerry can complicate things speak to some of the guys from lonnie and about the way he NEEDS to be kingpin and made dealing with the launceston city council more difficult than it was before (which from my understanding was pretty good, and they are to be commended on the way they did not do the easiest thing for them, but sought a resolution that was ok for everyone). 

I am not advocating bolting at the ben (or anywhere else), but at the same time I have no problems with it if someone wants to.  As you point out it is a big area with loads of rock.  I am not particularly nostalgic (except when remembering great collingwood victories over the bombers), so the chances of bolts on new routes impacting upon my day out at the ben are relatively low.  I know there are heaps of trad lines I can try if I want.  I do however, think it flawed logic to say pitons are OK, and that you can place them on rap.  If you need to place fixed gear, place bolts (obviously this doesnot include placing stuff on lead, where I think you can place as many pins as you want, and whoever seconds can pull them out).  These are my opinions etc, you can agree or disagree as you like, I will not care.  I also don't really care to discuss the validity of my "ethics" regarding bolts, because it such a discussion would be like me trying to convince gerry god doesn't exist and man evolved from the apes.  No consensus would be reached and such discussion is not fruitful.  Again I do not object to bolts or the lack thereof, but I do object to having this choice forced on me by someone else. 

Bisso

or real abseilers??. 

 
we are talking about rap bolts after all. 

I met a REAL CLIMBER once.  Didn't like him much.  Kept telling me he was a REAL CLIMBER, like I was supposed to know what the hell that was.  A funny guy also once said to me "I'm not a poof, but I fucked one once" (I think it is OK to actually write the word "fuck", the administrator of this site is hard to offend (and I've heard him say fuck once or twice) and it seems a little strange (or maybe just lazy) to have to use a word you cannot bring yourself to say or write,  purile to have to use use ### and I guess somewhat anal to actually use the correct number of # symbols (are you swiss?))

 You should also be aware that "dolly" has been A-grade sp##k (that's spank, for those not up with the whole # game) material (and spank in this case refers to auto-eroticism, or polishing the knob or masturbation) for many REAL CLIMBERS.  After all what REAL CLIMBER has time to socialise.  Much better to give YOURSELF a thorough going over, than, waste valuable climbing time.  I actually know a guy who knows a REAL CLIMBER and he tells me that metaphoically this REAL CLIMBER has balls as big as coconuts (which is why he lives by the moto, "when in dobut run it out" and is prepared to abseil off slings!!), but actually because his nuts have been belted so many times by all the hex's hanging off his harness, his nuts are physiologically as useless as "tits on a bull". 

I actually know a guy who is a sport climbing weenie.  He has enough balls to climb between bolts (even when they are a long way apart) and his balls actually work.  No dolly for him, he knows girls!  Strange world, huh.  Maybe we live in parallel universes! 

 I'm signing off for now, I gotta go and get my latest dolly.  I only look at it know what those UNREAL CLIMBERS are thinking about, and give me extra titilation while I self-flagellate with my #10 hex.

IMA FELCHER, Adelaide 

"more like IMA W#anker" 

This is certainly clear: IMA admits to it!  He also admits hitting himself with a #10 hex while engaging in masturbation and reading dolly (maybe he is really a she, as some say it is difficult for men to multi-task). 

I have two further questions for you IMA:  is it true that REAL FELCHERS don't use straws?  I'd like to think there was some kind of code of ethics amongst REAL FELCHERS, just as there appears to be amongst REAL CLIMBERS.

and secondly: are you related to the infamous Brian Felcher from SA?   

And further regarding doug being a dobbing wanker....It was actually Jerry (presumably a REAL climber) who dobbed himself in!  Doug (if that is his real name, and who may or may not be a real climber) merely provided some important information omitted by gerry.  This information is kind of important in the context of climbers dealing with parks and not fucking up what they already have (ie a parks service willing to turn a blind eye to bolting in NP's).  

A further note of interest (to me at least) is that in a recent article written in Rock, (by the G-man (G##ry that is, not the Sport climbing weanie "G-man Philips") ) (I'm ok at getting the correct number of #'s, but getting the correct number of ()'s is really difficult!) a bolted climb in a NP was included as one of the best in Tas.  This climb seems to violate all the rules set forth by REAL CLIMBERS: The climb itself was bolted on rap, you need the bolts to get off it and you need many bolts just to get to the bottom of the damn thing! 

 I am new to this sport and want SO BADLY to become a REAL CLIMBER.  But now I am also very confused.  I have a #10 hex and don't so much mind hitting myself with it (although I donot find this in any way sexually satisfying), I don't like dolly, but do like the Roxy chicks surf mag., I once stole a guys entire trad rack so I'd have one, but don't use it so much, I climb during the week (i work weekends) so do not consider myself a weekend warrior, I sometimes like bolts and someitmes do not.  Am I a REAL CLIMBER.  and if not what MORE do I have to do to become one.

Just letting you know Evan that Doug was one of the bolt police that was involved in removing anchors at Freycinet. There's plenty of bolts at Freycinet, but Doug got all fired up about removing what he thought to be unnecessary bolts above Light Fingered Maddison, to uphold the trad ethic. If he's fair dinkum about removing unnecessary bolts, why didn't he remove the harlequin rap station while he was at it - there's nothing wrong with finishing up the chimney like we used to. And yet he criticises me for removing bolts at Frews Flutes and the pavilion where, unlike Coles bay where bolts abound, they were the only bolts on the mountain that we know of. Logically, there's no difference between what I did, and what Doug did by removing bolts at Freycinet. If he advocates reinstalling the Ben Lomond rap stations, then logically, the bolts above Light Fingered Maddison should likewise be reinstalled. The guy who put them in thought he was doing the climbing community a service - making it more convenient. Though I personaly didn't agree with those bolts, nevertheless, what gives Doug and the Hobart bolt police the authority to remove them. Likewise, the bolts at Frews Flutes were placed with an altruistic attitude, to make it more convenient for everybody. Just like Doug, we've removed the unnecessary bolts at the Ben.