A couple of people have asked for this, and it can't hurt to ask the question to gauge where opinion is on this.

Below is an online poll asking whether you think there should be a bolted rap route (as opposed to bolted climbs) on Frew's Flutes, Ben Lomond.

You have to be logged in to vote, you can only vote once.

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5 Comments

  1. Gerry Narkowicz

    No point Jon. We'll just chop it again.

    1. you know who I am

      NARKO is right, NO POINT getting all worked up about nothing.

      A great thing about the ben is the predominance of NATURAL rap points.

      Next time I climb there I'll be taking some old rope and rapping from where ever I see fit. I think everyone can safely ignore THE NARK and rap if and when they want. After all I suspect the number of people climbing for the purposes of having him approve their tick list, or actively seeking his approval for the style of their ascents, is pretty minimal.

      It does strike me as bit odd that the sample topo for the new guide has rap points marked. I hope the information in the actual guide will be more CURRENT!!! Also I assume you've removed all pins, the tat utilised by ice climbers (they know where it is) and the fixed gear on Fantini's off-width (I would expect this to be removed before any ascent if a true tick is to be given).

      1. Adam Donoghue

        I've caught a few parts of this ongoing debate over rap anchors at Frews and it's given me some time to think thru a few points. ... here's an outsiders 2 cents worth.

        I think sometimes in concept an 'anchor only' bolting policy could work if everyone knows that that's the deal, there are areas elsewhere in the world with 'no chalk' ,'knotted slings for pro', 'only bolts and no trad', 'only trad and no bolts' ... you name it, as long as people know the score.

        However I think it gets blurry once bolts go in as to whether more are needed in other locations in the future. Eventually years on, the cliff would no doubt loose some of the adventurous feel in the process which most would probably like as its more pleasant, but i think it's good to have a few places where things don't come easy... the full body shag that is hard to come by and leaves you in a weird way satisfied or sickened (depending on your taste) for longer. Also you can't pave the approach talus field so it sort of fits that the climb and descent be of similiar nature.

        I also think some creative solutions can be made for different climbs for aesthetics/safety eg. at the top of the first pitch to master blaster (as this is one of the few classics that rapping off after the first pitch is now the accepted way to do the climb)why not put a stainless steel swadged cable with a mallion and plastic tubing around the cable to protect it from the rock edge(they use these at Frog Buttress in Qld instead of bolts and they are pretty discrete and safer than old nylon and last 10 years+).

        Anyway food for thought... I think no bolts on the ben is cool, tho its a bit rich to state no tat as well. As really the point of the no rap bolt policy the Gerry has pushed forward was that it created a precendent of bolts and that bolts might pop up on routes... tat on raps? where did that come in? I think stainless steel cable is the answer to ugly tat.
        Cheers Adam Donoghue

        1. garry phillips

          Hi there
          Id kinda agree with adam here. I think there needs to be some standard rap route. If it aint bolts, then a wire cable. It can be a clear line here that its a no bolts on routes ethic and i do think that every one reading this would disagree. But tat free is very silly in my opinion. Rember all the years befor this debate there has been sling up there. Again if you make a standard sling, bolt or tat descent route. IT WILL HOPEFULLY KEEP THE OTHERS FREE FROM TAT!
          Also i think it is unfare to write lazy climbers, the people that might have left the tat may have had an epic!
          May me a storm came in! may be they were not up to it (every body has to start some where) and may be even they were looking for the rap bolts in the guide book and got lost!
          aLL i ask is to consider this option, because world over from sea crags to high mountains there is generally always a standard rap route!
          thanks
          garry in indian creek, heading to yosemite to get punished

          1. garry phillips

            i mean agree not disagree